ROAR finds popular Trinity stock motor does not fit within rules

Trinity's D3.5 17.5 spec motor has been deemed illegal by ROAR this week.

 

The motor, which is widely used in stock on-road racing due to its performance, has caused its fair share of complaints -- complaints which Trinity believes spurred the ruling. 

 

"The Trinity D3.5 motor and others based on the D3.5, do not comply with the organization’s required specifications for motors in the 17.5 stock class," ROAR said in a statement released on their website Thursday after determining that the motors' wire strands aren't within the rules put in place by the sanctioning body.

 

Trinity, however, believes that competitors' "complaints" are what fueled the ruling. 

 

"The reality is our motor was approved [by] them just like every other motor using that [motor testing] equipment," said Trinity CEO Ernest Provetti when asked for comment.  "They wait 10 months to take it off the list because a few competitors complain about it non-stop."

 

Provetti, who once ran for ROAR President, made it clear that he would not accept the decision of the sanctioning body without a fight. Furthermore, Provetti claims that Trinity has done nothing wrong and that the motor in question aligns with the rules. 

 

"I am hoping some peaceful and realistic resolution for all parties can be reached quickly," said Provetti in a statement released on his Facebook page Friday morning. "Trinity does not want to seek an immediate injunction or relief from this 'ruling' and force it to be decided in the courts system."

  

We talked with ROAR on Friday about the ruling and asked for their side of the story -- more specifically, why the motor is now deemed illegal after it initially passed their testing 10 months ago. ROAR stated that the wire used passed initial inspection using the standard measuring tools, which only measure to a certain degree. It didn't pass by a noticeable margin, but it fell right on the mark it needed to using the tools available at the time.

 

ROAR began to hear from many of its members and from people within the industry whom questioned its legality after the product circulated on the market for awhile. The sanctioning body then decided to further inspect the motor to see if they may have missed something in their initial inspection.

 

After acquiring measurement tools that were more advanced and able to measure down to a more finite level than the standard set used previously, ROAR determined that the wire was, in fact, not within size specified in the rules. It was close enough to be right at the mark with standard measuring equipment, but beyond that limit when using advanced equipment.

 

Because of this finding, ROAR had no choice but to rule the motor as illegal.  

 

Regardless of what happens, not everyone is going to be happy. In the end, there is a clear rule in which equipment must abide by. Should it matter whether a certain piece of equipment is found to not fit within these constraints when it is originally introduced or almost a year later? It is this reporter's opinion that it would defy the purpose of a "stock" class if certain equipment is grandfathered into legality just because it passed tech at one point. If we are truly trying to level the playing field by establishing rules and following them, then we should understand why ROAR made the decision they did after finding that something did not adhere to the rules after going to greater lengths of inspection. Should we fault them for not determining this originally? That is up for debate. But ROAR isn't Formula One. They aren't NASCAR. They don't have an unlimited budget. They took the necessary steps to determine the legality of a product after initial inspection due to demand. Sounds about in line with what any other sanctioning body on Earth would do.

 

We also understand why Trinity is upset. They have customers that now have motors that are illegal to use in ROAR-sanctioned races. Would they have as many unhappy customers if the motor was outlawed right off-the-bat? Probably not. But would they have sold as many motors in the last 10 months? Probably not. 

 

This isn't a good situation for anyone involved. The only clear winner here is the spirit of fair racing. This ruling should go a long way in reminding people that ROAR (however disliked by some) still exists to establish rules and make racing fair. Today, they did exactly what they are meant to do. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Official statement from ROAR -- "After a great deal of consideration the ROAR Executive Committee has determined that the Trinity D3.5 motor and others based on the D3.5, do not comply with the organization’s required specifications for motors in the 17.5 stock class. The determination is based on the fact that motors being sold are built with wire that’s larger than maximum specification permitted. All of the random samples of the D3.5 based motors during the announced compliance checks tested with wire that’s larger than the maximum dimension. Rule 8.8.4.3.1 states clearly that “The three slotted stator must be wound with 17.5 turns of 2 strands of a maximum diameter of 20AWG or 0.813 mm per slot. A diameter of .813mm is the nominal measurement of 20AWG wire, and that it is the stated maximum wire diameter permitted. It’s on this basis that the Executive Committee made its determination."

 

Official statement from Ernest Provetti (CEO of Trinity) -- "Dear Partners and Customers:
At roughly 10pm last evening I received an email from Steve Pond who I believe now is the Secretary of ROAR saying that the D3.5 (17.5 spec motor) is being removed from the ROAR list effective immediately. Please see press release shown on the ROAR website below (it is a little confusing because it implies that the entire D3.5 is in question but upon reading further it is only the 17.5 spec motor)

Approval status of Trinity D3.5 and D3.5-based OEM motors
After a great deal of consideration the ROAR Executive Committee has determined that the Trinity D3.5 motor and others based on the D3.5, do not comply with the organization’s required specifications for motors in the 17.5 stock class. The determination is based on the fact that motors being sold are built with wire that’s larger than maximum specification permitted. All of the random samples of the D3.5 based motors during the announced compliance checks tested with wire that’s larger than the maximum dimension. Rule 8.8.4.3.1 states clearly that “The three slotted stator must be wound with 17.5 turns of 2 strands of a maximum diameter of 20AWG or 0.813 mm per slot. A diameter of .813mm is the nominal measurement of 20AWG wire, and that it is the stated maximum wire diameter permitted. It’s on this basis that the Executive Committee made its determination.

This entry was posted on Thursday, January 17th, 2013 at 11:20 pm and is filed under Approval News,
Trinity's position on this is as follows:

1) We built a brushless motor to the specifications and rules R.O.A.R. gives us and every other motor builder. The rules are not perfect like most any rule made. But Trinity followed the "letter of the law",

2) We have several issues here:
A) The rule reads 17.5 turns of 2 strands of a maximum diameter of 20AWG or 0.813mm per slot. A diameter of .813mm is the nominal measurement of 20AWG wire, and that it is the stated maximum wire diameter permitted. It’s on this basis that the Executive Committee made its determination.

Problem 1: There is no tolerance mentioned anywhere in this rule. It is literally impossible to manufacture any product today, especially in China with a zero tolerance. We have supplied letters from our motor company to ROAR saying that the 20AWG that we use is compliant with their rule and every copper wire that is manufactured throughout the world "has some tolerance". ROAR says wire companies do not use any tolerance and make everything EXACT. Are we to be lead to believe that a Chinese or American wire company that has produced wire slightly larger or smaller in size "in this present world economy" is then "melting it down or throwing it away" This is not practical. It is also not practical to have any rule with zero tolerance!

Problem 2: The above rule is confusing and can be misinterpreted because it was not written correctly. You choose either .813mm or 20AWG....
We chose 20AWG wire which are motor company in China ordered and supplied ROAR with the necessary amount of samples, in the same manner Trinity and every other motor manufacturer operates. We paid for the sample motors and paid the ROAR approval fees (in excess of a thousand dollars). We then wait (like every other motor company for either an approval or an issue). If we receive the approval, we then start the production of motors, just like every other motor manufacturer.

Problem 3: We were issued an approval for the D3.5 (17.5) in April of 2012 and released the first batch of D3.5 spec motors in the R.O.A.R. pipeline and have been selling these motors for over TEN (10) months.......

Problem 4: ROAR has confirmed that they have tested recent motors, through spot-checks as well as the "original samples" that are archived at ROAR (like every other motor manufacturer) and they have concluded that the motors have never been changed by Trinity since the initial approval

Problem 5: ROAR faced a number of competing motor manufacturer's with complaints about the motor and ROAR then purchased what they say...."more sophisticated measuring equipment to test motors" than what was available when they tested Trinity and every other motor submitted for the past several years.

Problem 6: They are now determining that they feel our motor (17.5) does not meet their specification and have pulled this "ONE MOTOR" 17.5 Spec off the list with no warning, no grace period and no discussion with the manufacturer.
Our position here is "WE HAVE DONE NOTHING WRONG" and this obviously can "ARBITRARILY HAPPEN AGAIN" to any one of you if your competitors yell loud enough. WE DID NOTHING WRONG. WE COMPLIED TO THEIR SPEC, PAID THEIR FEES, WENT THROUGH THEIR APPROVAL PROCESS, MADE THE D3.5 MORE AVAILABLE TO MORE SOURCES THAN ALL THE OTHER MOTOR MANUFACTURER'S COMBINED!

How do we go forward and our concerns:
A) Our main concern is that this is an "ARBITRARY DECISION" ROAR made due to increased pressure from outside manufacturer's (who should have nothing to do with running the organization). This is a MAJOR CONFLICT OF INTEREST
ROAR is assuming NO RESPONSIBILITY for APPROVING THIS MOTOR AND ALLOWING PEOPLE TO BUY THIS FOR OVER 10 MONTHS WHEN WE CHANGED ABSOLUTELY NOTHING FROM THE ORIGINAL APPROVAL

C) ROAR has shown no responsibility for clubs and organizers, distributors, dealers and consumers who purchased this motor "BASED ON THEIE APPROVAL" since they run their establishments on ROAR rules.

D) ROAR has offered NO SOLUTION TO THE MATTER other than they are possibly working a new spec for a motor but have no details or information about this.

In closing I am hoping to speak with the new ROAR President at some point today to go over these points and to see what if anything can be resolved. This press release is just to inform you of what is happening and my promise to you that we will not allow our company, our partners (OEM'S) and our customers suffer without a fight if a "realistic solution can be reached". We are seeking relief from this ruling for the following indisputable reasons:

1) We were granted ROAR approval by Bob Ingersol, The ROAR technical director and the ROAR Executive and ROAR has confirmed we have not changed the motor since it was approved 10 Months AGO!

2) ROAR saying they have purchased new equipment which obviously changes the way they approve motors is no concern of ours....it is just a confirmation that they feel their approval process was not up to the task. This is not the fault of any motor manufacturer who complied to ROAR's approval rules

3) This is an arbitrary decision with no solution given due to increased pressure from competing manufactures (WHICH IS A MAJOR CONFLICT OF INTEREST) if several parties can exert this type of pressure over a volunteer organization.

Again I am hoping some peaceful and realistic resolution for all parties can be reached quickly. Trinity does not want to seek an immediate injunction or relief from this 'ruling" and force it to be decided in the courts system.

I thank-you for listening and for your continued support for Trinity.
Thanks..Ernie"

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